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There's Nothing Wrong with the Car...

6252 Views 27 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  Dozer42, 
S
I Know! There are already plenty of threads on CT mileage results, but this one is a little different.

I've had my CT for just over 6 months and my day to day mileage results have been, to say the least, fairly unimpressive at 36-38 mpg. I am doing a little better now, closer to 38 than 36, but nothing to indicate that I was EVER going to see really impressive numbers! I've posted many times about the probable causes of my results; along with a few others, we just don't see those low 40's to (gasp!) mid 50's numbers that many others report as commonplace. :cool:

Well, I just took a day trip on Tuesday from LA to San Diego to see the Giants play the Padres. This is not something that I normally do and I thought that just maybe, I'd see different results. Boy, did I!!

I left at 3:37 pm for a 7:05 pm game. I needed to get some gas, so my first major delay. Costco gas was packed! It must have taken 20 minutes to get to the pump. No matter, still plenty of "pad" time. On clear freeway, it takes about 2 hours to get there. I got back on the freeway at about 4:20 pm. This is where it gets good! I ended up in heavy "slow and go" traffic almost immediately. I'd gradually get up to between 30 and 40 mph, very seldom more, and have to slow way down again almost immediately. I rarely came to a complete stop! The result was sustained EV mode! I did this for the next hour and 40 minutes. Very seldom did the gas engine kick in! It was just about 6:00 pm and I'm only halfway there; pad time was pretty much gone! My mpg average, however, was 56.7!!! :D Once things opened up, the average slowly declined. I got to the parking garage at game time with a 50.5 mpg average! (I missed the top of the 1st!)

The trip back was a completely clear run! I set the cruise control to 70 mph and settled in. I watched the average bounce up and down slightly, but overall it very slowly declined for the whole trip. When I arrived home, the final result was a 46.1 mpg average. :)

If I hadn't used the cruise control going home, I might have done a bit better. It's obvious that cruise doesn't function ANY differently than in a regular car. If it has to go into "power" range to maintain speed, that's what it does! It would be nice if there was an "eco cruise" mode that weighed speed against fuel economy and allowed for some reduction in speed in order to stay out of the power range! Still, much better than my "normal" results. Given the opportunity, my CT performs just as well as ANY other! ;)

My day to day results are not going to change (much), but I now know that my normal results are simply what they are. I'm doing as well as I can under the circumstances! :rolleyes:

MattRN, if you're reading this, I might have seen you on the 405 south at about 3:50 pm (near the El Segundo Blvd. exit). I never caught up before I exited at Rosecrans for Costco gas, so I couldn't confirm that it was you (or if it was even another CT, actually), but it was white. If it wasn't a CT/you, then I didn't see another CT during the trip! :eek:
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Bigleftyinaz
Good news for you.

Another way to think about driving is to drive like your not in a hurry.Learn to coast up to the red lights.You will start laughing at folks who seem to be racing to the red light,especially those who race to pass you before they stop for the light.It's freaking funny as hell.
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LxTxNx
scottp461 said:
mattrn, if you're reading this, i might have seen you on the 405 south at about 3:50 pm (near the el segundo blvd. Exit). I never caught up before i exited at rosecrans for costco gas, so i couldn't confirm that it was you (or if it was even another ct, actually), but it was white. If it wasn't a ct/you, then i didn't see another ct during the trip! :eek:
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LMfAO!
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evicfinite
i dont go by the gauge's mpg numbers, i do the calculations... i think that would be more reliable results.
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D
Strange, I've only had my CT for a couple weeks, but I have no problems getting 46+ MPG (indicated) all day every day. Even with my wife driving, she thought she did badly (she didn't!!!) she pulled 45.9mpg (indicated). That's a solid 43+mpg, and I don't see why all CTs can't pull this all day every day.

With a few modifications, I think I can hit 50mpg average. (16lb wheels, lowering, etc). I guess we'll see, but there's a lot left on the table, and no reason to see MPG in the 30s instead of the high 40s.

scottp461 said:
The trip back was a completely clear run! I set the cruise control to 70 mph and settled in. I watched the average bounce up and down slightly, but overall it very slowly declined for the whole trip. When I arrived home, the final result was a 46.1 mpg.

My day to day results are not going to change (much), but I now know that my normal results are simply what they are. I'm doing as well as I can under the circumstances! :rolleyes:
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jimmyc13
Dozer42 said:
Strange, I've only had my CT for a couple weeks, but I have no problems getting 46+ MPG (indicated) all day every day. Even with my wife driving, she thought she did badly (she didn't!!!) she pulled 45.9mpg (indicated). That's a solid 43+mpg, and I don't see why all CTs can't pull this all day every day.

With a few modifications, I think I can hit 50mpg average. (16lb wheels, lowering, etc). I guess we'll see, but there's a lot left on the table, and no reason to see MPG in the 30s instead of the high 40s.
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Yeah, I used to think that too, but based on this post, his regular commute just kills the mileage on the car (heavy traffic constantly stopping & going w/out allowing to cruise) and short trips regularly (i.e. 5-7 min. drives to the office) also seem to kill the MPG's in the CT from what I've read on here.

scottp - Glad to hear there's nothing wrong with your CT! :) It's just your driving! :eek: :D
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Termin8r
There are a lot of people who could easily achieve a 20% hike in their MPG if they made the effort of driving a bit more energy conscious. Realising that you are wasting energy every time you needlessly accelerate or decelerate the whole mass of your car is the first step. Then use ways to prevent it as much as possible. Don't accelerate or even touch the throttle pedal when you don't have to and use the brake as sparingly as possible. It's easier than you think. Many people lazily keep their foot on the throttle pedal in situations where, if they were driving more consciously, they could have started coasting much earlier, thereby saving quite a lot of fuel. Red lights are a good example, but keeping more distance on the freeway also helps in not having to use the brakes as much.

You don't have to drive like a slouch doing this, it's just a smoother way of driving. Even taking corners at higher speeds helps in conserving dynamic energy: you brake less before going into the corner and need to accelerate less when coming out of it, so less fuel is used.
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D
Agreed, 100%. There's a lot left 'on the table' compared to 'normal' driving styles. Just sticking to 70mph instead of 75mph on the freeway will net a good 5mpg.

And one of the things I learned from riding a motorcycle, always try to look '12 seconds' ahead of your vehicle. There's no need to keep laying into the throttle when you're just headed towards a red light.

Termin8r said:
There are a lot of people who could easily achieve a 20% hike in their MPG if they made the effort of driving a bit more energy conscious. Realising that you are wasting energy every time you needlessly accelerate or decelerate the whole mass of your car is the first step. Then use ways to prevent it as much as possible. Don't accelerate or even touch the throttle pedal when you don't have to and use the brake as sparingly as possible. It's easier than you think. Many people lazily keep their foot on the throttle pedal in situations where, if they were driving more consciously, they could have started coasting much earlier, thereby saving quite a lot of fuel. Red lights are a good example, but keeping more distance on the freeway also helps in not having to use the brakes as much.

You don't have to drive like a slouch doing this, it's just a smoother way of driving. Even taking corners at higher speeds helps in conserving dynamic energy: you brake less before going into the corner and need to accelerate less when coming out of it, so less fuel is used.
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D
Bear in mind that California puts so many additives into their gas that you're never going to see MPG > 40. I'm lucky if I get that, but 90% of my driving is at 75-80 MPH on the freeway.
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dgstan said:
Bear in mind that California puts so many additives into their gas that you're never going to see MPG > 40. I'm lucky if I get that, but 90% of my driving is at 75-80 MPH on the freeway.
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Yeah, I know they put extra crap in our gas that we don't want, but I'm easily getting 45-50mpg on Costco gas in California.

But I don't drive 80mph.
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Matt_RN
scottp461 said:
I Know! There are already plenty of threads on CT mileage results, but this one is a little different.

I've had my CT for just over 6 months and my day to day mileage results have been, to say the least, fairly unimpressive at 36-38 mpg. I am doing a little better now, closer to 38 than 36, but nothing to indicate that I was EVER going to see really impressive numbers! I've posted many times about the probable causes of my results; along with a few others, we just don't see those low 40's to (gasp!) mid 50's numbers that many others report as commonplace. :cool:

Well, I just took a day trip on Tuesday from LA to San Diego to see the Giants play the Padres. This is not something that I normally do and I thought that just maybe, I'd see different results. Boy, did I!!

I left at 3:37 pm for a 7:05 pm game. I needed to get some gas, so my first major delay. Costco gas was packed! It must have taken 20 minutes to get to the pump. No matter, still plenty of "pad" time. On clear freeway, it takes about 2 hours to get there. I got back on the freeway at about 4:20 pm. This is where it gets good! I ended up in heavy "slow and go" traffic almost immediately. I'd gradually get up to between 30 and 40 mph, very seldom more, and have to slow way down again almost immediately. I rarely came to a complete stop! The result was sustained EV mode! I did this for the next hour and 40 minutes. Very seldom did the gas engine kick in! It was just about 6:00 pm and I'm only halfway there; pad time was pretty much gone! My mpg average, however, was 56.7!!! :D Once things opened up, the average slowly declined. I got to the parking garage at game time with a 50.5 mpg average! (I missed the top of the 1st!)

The trip back was a completely clear run! I set the cruise control to 70 mph and settled in. I watched the average bounce up and down slightly, but overall it very slowly declined for the whole trip. When I arrived home, the final result was a 46.1 mpg average. :)

If I hadn't used the cruise control going home, I might have done a bit better. It's obvious that cruise doesn't function ANY differently than in a regular car. If it has to go into "power" range to maintain speed, that's what it does! It would be nice if there was an "eco cruise" mode that weighed speed against fuel economy and allowed for some reduction in speed in order to stay out of the power range! Still, much better than my "normal" results. Given the opportunity, my CT performs just as well as ANY other! ;)

My day to day results are not going to change (much), but I now know that my normal results are simply what they are. I'm doing as well as I can under the circumstances! :rolleyes:

MattRN, if you're reading this, I might have seen you on the 405 south at about 3:50 pm (near the El Segundo Blvd. exit). I never caught up before I exited at Rosecrans for Costco gas, so I couldn't confirm that it was you (or if it was even another CT, actually), but it was white. If it wasn't a CT/you, then I didn't see another CT during the trip! :eek:
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Yeah. That was probably me. I was on my way to work in LB. I babied my car this tank and drove like a granny. I can't believe I hit past the 48 MPG mark!
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coubs
Termin8r well said. In the year and a bit that I was waiting/researching hybrids, I employed t hose same techniques with my Honda Pilot and I bettered my mpgs by at least 5.
Also Scottp461 I think I read on one of the hypermiling forums that cruise control does not yeild the best results for a hybrid especially in hilly terain - but with a big caveat on "for hypermiling". Hypermilers don't like cruise control because when you approach an incline you burn too much fuel trying to maintain the set speed. They prefer to accelerate gradually into the hill then coast up it as much as possible then coast the whole way down. Of course this is extreme hypermiling and not usually practical but I do see that it does accelerate pretty hard to maintain your set speed (not unlike any other cruise control system so I am not slamming the CT's cruise control). That would be a very good idea though to have an ECO Cruise option!
I would also like to see them raise the software controlled limit of 42 mph or 6,500 rpm) for EV mode even if it were another 5mph but I am sure there are all kinds of other things that could be affected (battery life, etc. etc.). I think I got this like from this forum but this is an excellent exaplanation of the power split device and why w can'y go over 42 mph in EV mode.
Toyota Prius - Power Split Device
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Matt_RN
coubs said:
Termin8r well said. In the year and a bit that I was waiting/researching hybrids, I employed t hose same techniques with my Honda Pilot and I bettered my mpgs by at least 5.
Also Scottp461 I think I read on one of the hypermiling forums that cruise control does not yeild the best results for a hybrid especially in hilly terain - but with a big caveat on "for hypermiling". Hypermilers don't like cruise control because when you approach an incline you burn too much fuel trying to maintain the set speed. They prefer to accelerate gradually into the hill then coast up it as much as possible then coast the whole way down. Of course this is extreme hypermiling and not usually practical but I do see that it does accelerate pretty hard to maintain your set speed (not unlike any other cruise control system so I am not slamming the CT's cruise control). That would be a very good idea though to have an ECO Cruise option!
I would also like to see them raise the software controlled limit of 42 mph or 6,500 rpm) for EV mode even if it were another 5mph but I am sure there are all kinds of other things that could be affected (battery life, etc. etc.). I think I got this like from this forum but this is an excellent exaplanation of the power split device and why w can'y go over 42 mph in EV mode.
Toyota Prius - Power Split Device
Click to expand...

coubs, this brings up an interesting point in re: plug-in prius. I'm assuming the PSD is the same size, but it can do EV mode up to 60 or 65 MPH if I'm not mistaken. Is it because the software has been rewritten along with a newer battery or do you think the PSD has been resized to allow for this?
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coubs
I am thinking it is just a software change as it says the real limit is 10K rpms. I wonder if we will ever be able to by one of those "mod chips" on ebay but instead of changing the software to increase timing/fule/combustion it would just raise the soft limit of 6500 rpms on the PSD. But like I said there must be dimishing returns on something else as that seems like such an odd number to be arbitralily set.
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Matt_RN
yes yes. agreed.
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Bigleftyinaz
I don't know if raising EV mode limits would be a good thing. If that was the case,I'd never be able to keep battery charged.If I'm not careful,I can deplete battery very easy.Then mileage will suffer while charging up and I can't Use EV mode till enough charge.


Matt- Not sure if I 'd call it driving like a granny,more like defensive driving. You're more aware of whats going on around you.

My theory is- Drive it like your not in a hurry,not like you stole it.

My avg speed is 3 mph less to 5 mph over posted limit.
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J
Ok, so I'm still waiting for my CT to arrive but I got to drive a demo Toyota Auris hybrid for a week and almost liked it then discovered the CT200h. I managed to get a demo vehicle for three days and drove above 600 miles in it. When you get used to what you need to do with it the mileage goes up. Now, remember I'm using Imperial gallons over here but got nearly 60mpg (48mpg US) for the first 200 miles treating it carefully in a mix of highway and suburban driving. I filled the tank and then pretended I wasn't in a hybrid and had some fun in English country lanes driving the 60 miles to my mothers place on the coast and back twice. I always try and drive the route smooth but fast, stay off the brake and use the hills to accelerate down and decelerate up when there are bends coming and I tried out sports mode quite a bit. I then handed the car to each of my sons to try out and I am sure they hit sports mode most of the time. We kept the car over 50mpg (40mpg US) for 400 miles. I'm looking forward to my car coming and we will play with some real economy driving and see what we can get from a tank. But then go back to enjoying the car the way it's meant to be enjoyed.

I've been driving 7 seater people carriers and SUVs for the past 20+ years and my latest was a Citrōen C8 2.2 litre diesel. The tank holds 18 gallons (22.5 US) and that gives me up to 500 miles from the tank. Over here the cost to fill it up max'd out at £120 back when the dollar hit 2 to the pound - so $240! now I'm down to $180 - $190 for tank. I've told the kids I've helped with my last house move and that some of their cars are going to bigger than mine. This is going to be MY CAR and I can't wait for it to arrive.

One thing on both the CT and the Auris . . . They both seem to say 'give me more gas' around the 400 mile mark regardless of the mileage I was getting. It almost feels like they just flash up the light at 400 miles. Any comments on that?
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Termin8r said:
There are a lot of people who could easily achieve a 20% hike in their MPG if they made the effort of driving a bit more energy conscious. Realising that you are wasting energy every time you needlessly accelerate or decelerate the whole mass of your car is the first step. Then use ways to prevent it as much as possible. Don't accelerate or even touch the throttle pedal when you don't have to and use the brake as sparingly as possible. It's easier than you think. Many people lazily keep their foot on the throttle pedal in situations where, if they were driving more consciously, they could have started coasting much earlier, thereby saving quite a lot of fuel. Red lights are a good example, but keeping more distance on the freeway also helps in not having to use the brakes as much.

You don't have to drive like a slouch doing this, it's just a smoother way of driving. Even taking corners at higher speeds helps in conserving dynamic energy: you brake less before going into the corner and need to accelerate less when coming out of it, so less fuel is used.
Click to expand...
Thank you, termin8r for your comments, as well as those of others. I am quite aware of the techniques to improve fuel economy and implement them as much as possible when I drive. My situation, as I have posted before, is far from ideal. My "normal" commute is 6 miles each way on the west side of LA. I also go out to get lunch pretty much everyday. This is often a shorter and more congested drive (drive-thru's are also hell on fuel economy!) I run errands when needed (all local/short distances) and that's about it. Longer trips are taken in the Boxster.

This is urban sprawl! Lots of lights, lots of traffic and lots of very aggressive fellow drivers! It is also a "hilly" environment. I do look as far ahead in traffic as I can to decide what to do next. That includes coasting as soon as I see the signal in the distance turning yellow. The reality of this, here in LA, is that 5 or 6 other cars zip by, jump in front of me and I have to stop anyway (several cars further back)! That's not to say that I don't do it! I'm just telling you what happens when I do. Traffic flow here is VERY dynamic! People often make split-second decisions to take advantage of fleeting opportunities and brief openings! You say to "leave distance" on the freeway. Once again, this is LA! I try to do this, but cars just fill the void as fast as they can! On my trip, it was a rare occurrence. I think that everyone just knew that it wasn't going to result in anything beneficial, so they didn't bother! I have also (mostly) given up on the common practice of "making the light" by gunning it! I used to check the walk signal countdown to time signal changes all the time. I don't need that information that much anymore. I'm often the "straggler" following the pack (the other cars have passed me already) and many of our lights detect the gaps. So, on quite a few occasions, I'm the lone car "caught" by the red light.

Even before I had the CT, I drove somewhat passively. I fall behind to merge because most people hate it when you try to get in front of them (it's that whole competitive thing!), but could care less if you fall in behind them (they won!) I also find the "slow-pokes" and merge in front of them. They leave big spaces in front and are not usually the aggressive types! (I know, I just admitted to being a "gap filler" while also being a "slow-poke"; Shoot Me!!)

Before the CT I didn't consider myself an aggressive driver. I've always had one golden rule in driving, "Don't do anything that causes another driver to have to react to me!" I thought that this qualified me as "non-aggressive" and a good driver. The CT, however, has challenged this! In order to drive efficiently, I am constantly affecting other drivers behavior! It seems that "normal" LA driving is "aggressive"! As such, it is much less fuel efficient. To drive more efficiently in LA is to actually drive less safely in some ways. I must strike a balance in order to survive driving here. It's just the way it is!

Maybe this little story will clarify this. Recently, on my way home from the store at 9:30 pm, I was the first car at the red light (see above). A police cruiser pulled up and stopped behind me. The light turned green and I started accelerating (halfway up in the power range); the cruiser was right on my tail. This is common with "normal" civilians, but I was surprised that a police car was doing it! I felt nervous, because he wasn't pulling around me. He backed off slightly and I finally reached the speed limit. He still didn't pull around me and was still closer than I was comfortable with! I then noticed another car, in my blind spot to my left, pacing me (afraid to go faster because of the Cop car and all?!) Maybe he was pinning the police in? I was nearing my complex and, as I usually do, I signaled my right turn very early (otherwise, I could easily end up with another car in my back seat!) and started to slow down. At that instant, the cruiser gunned it and pulled around me to the left (I guess the other car had opened a gap) and speed away, no siren or lights! To my mind, he was pissed at my poky driving, got angry and did something about it! :eek:

I have written a novel once again! So I will stop now! :)
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midcow3
You guys need to learn to enjoy life :rolleyes:. Some of you sound like you already have one foot in the grave :eek:
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D
Well s**t, you're in LA. That explains it. I'm in NorCal, SoCal is like a different country, or at least a different state!

Yeah, I have no problems driving in LA, NY, or NJ (or even Mexico), but it's really a different attitude in those places.

It seems like your driving style is more suited to a Prius PHV than a CT, wish we had a plug-in CT! ;]

But what's this with drive-thru's being hell on fuel economy? My CT is in ev mode absolutely 100% of the time at drive-thrus. Even with the AC blasting. (I leave it on pretty much always).

Really I get my best mileage in the city, but that's usually after a significant freeway drive where the battery gets charged up both while cruising and on deceleration.

I literally have a 5 minute drive from the freeway to home, and 99% of that is 100% in EV. My MPG just goes up and up! Currently showing 47.5mpg after about 350 miles, and not even close to the 'low fuel' light.

And yes, write your novels at will, Honey Badger don't give a damn! =]

scottp461 said:
This is often a shorter and more congested drive (drive-thru's are also hell on fuel economy!) I run errands when needed (all local/short distances) and that's about it. Longer trips are taken in the Boxster.

I have written a novel once again! So I will stop now! :)
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