It's happened to me as well. It's the anti-lock brakes that will cause that to happen as with most cars when you go over a bump while applying the brakes. And, don't pump the brakes -- just use steady pressure.
surge forward when braking
guys, i was driving towards a round about the other day. as usual, i will slow by car down by tapping on the brakes.
tapping on the brakes usually activates the Traction brakes. which charges the battery.
however, i hit a bumpy patch of the road.
suddenly, i lost all braking from traction brakes. my car surged forward (as if there were no brakes at all).
i almost crashed in to the roundabout.
help!!!
tapping on the brakes usually activates the Traction brakes. which charges the battery.
however, i hit a bumpy patch of the road.
suddenly, i lost all braking from traction brakes. my car surged forward (as if there were no brakes at all).
i almost crashed in to the roundabout.
help!!!
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Not this again! There must be a gazillion threads on this and the Prius boards. Besides, the class action was just settled, wasn't it?
It is not surging, it is just switching from regenerative to anti-lock brakes and the split second between them results in less braking while in between, but the car is not accelerating, it is just not braking as hard. It is the nature of the beast, although some people get so freaked out that they can't stand it.
It is not surging, it is just switching from regenerative to anti-lock brakes and the split second between them results in less braking while in between, but the car is not accelerating, it is just not braking as hard. It is the nature of the beast, although some people get so freaked out that they can't stand it.
I totally agree with you, there is no surging or accelerating. This happens to all cars when in this transition between anti-lock and normal braking and going over a bump in the road or braking while going over railroad tracks.Not this again! There must be a gazillion threads on this and the Prius boards. Besides, the class action was just settled, wasn't it?
It is not surging, it is just switching from regenerative to anti-lock brakes and the split second between them results in less braking while in between, but the car is not accelerating, it is just not braking as hard. It is the nature of the beast, although some people get so freaked out that they can't stand it.
Don, this most certainly does NOT happen to all cars. You must have only driven hybrid Toyotas!I totally agree with you, there is no surging or accelerating. This happens to all cars when in this transition between anti-lock and normal braking and going over a bump in the road or braking while going over railroad tracks.
I have never experienced this, and I have owned many cars.
This is a serious flaw in the otherwise spectacular hybrid system.
There is most definitely a surge forward and it's most disconcerting.
What were the results of the class action?
No there is not a surge forward. That is physically impossible. Unless you have HUGE feet and hit the brake and accelerator at the same time, there is no power to surge the car forward. The class action resulted in a nominal amount for anyone that sold a hybrid while this dumb publicity was going on (and thus theoretically lost money) and zero for actual damages to the purported class. And a lot of money to the class action attorneys. Hardly a serious blow to Toyota. I am not aware of any scientific proof that there was any "serious flaw" having been demonstrated.Don, this most certainly does NOT happen to all cars. You must have only driven hybrid Toyotas!
I have never experienced this, and I have owned many cars.
This is a serious flaw in the otherwise spectacular hybrid system.
There is most definitely a surge forward and it's most disconcerting.
What were the results of the class action?
In order to prevent clumsy people with huge feet from starting another class, which might result in another windfall to some lawyers, I think they are incorporating a throttle kill with the brake pedal, which will drive the heel and toe enthusiasts crazy. But, car manufacturers have to engineer to the lowest common denominator.
Joe166, you should try it yourself before commenting.
It is NOT "physically impossible"?! for the car to surge forward...it's what happens when you press the gas pedal.
Apply the brakes as if to come to a full stop and see how the car behaves over uneven pavement. You'll feel the brakes release for a moment, which will cause the car to surge forward being of its momentum.
It is NOT "physically impossible"?! for the car to surge forward...it's what happens when you press the gas pedal.
Apply the brakes as if to come to a full stop and see how the car behaves over uneven pavement. You'll feel the brakes release for a moment, which will cause the car to surge forward being of its momentum.
Joe166, you should try it yourself before commenting.
It is NOT "physically impossible"?! for the car to surge forward...it's what happens when you press the gas pedal.
Apply the brakes as if to come to a full stop and see how the car behaves over uneven pavement. You'll feel the brakes release for a moment, which will cause the car to surge forward because of its momentum.
It is NOT "physically impossible"?! for the car to surge forward...it's what happens when you press the gas pedal.
Apply the brakes as if to come to a full stop and see how the car behaves over uneven pavement. You'll feel the brakes release for a moment, which will cause the car to surge forward because of its momentum.
I have driven my car for almost two years. I have noticed pretty much everything about it. When you put the brakes on hard, it shifts from the regenerative brakes to the anti lock brakes. If you are on uneven ground there is a short (milliseconds) time between the two where there is a lack of braking. While the deceleration does not go on as hard as it had been, or as it will be, there is no "surge forward" from this. What happens is that it doesn't slow down as hard as it was under either braking system, but it doesn't surge anywhere. And I am sure that the overall stopping distance is much less or they would not bother to switch from the one system to the other.
It is not capable of accelerating unless some power is added and that doesn't happen during the switchover, unless you have your foot on the accelerator. You properly described it as a result of momentum. That is not surging forward, but frankly, I doubt that I will convince you of that. You probably would have joined in the famous Audi 5000 lawsuit that ruined a pretty good car, although they never found a single instance of unintended acceleration and almost all the incidents were when someone inexperienced was driving the car.
It is not capable of accelerating unless some power is added and that doesn't happen during the switchover, unless you have your foot on the accelerator. You properly described it as a result of momentum. That is not surging forward, but frankly, I doubt that I will convince you of that. You probably would have joined in the famous Audi 5000 lawsuit that ruined a pretty good car, although they never found a single instance of unintended acceleration and almost all the incidents were when someone inexperienced was driving the car.
i thought that when you go over bumps while braking, the computer thinks there is a problem and the "surge" is actually no braking power while the car switches from regen braking to physicals pads braking
I am not sure that the computer thinks there is a problem, but for a very short time (measured in milliseconds), there is supposedly a reduction in braking power rather than no braking power, while the braking switches. That is what I was trying to say, but you said it better. There is no "surge", rather, there is a reduction in slowing down for an instant, and, while I am not privy to details developed by engineers, I am sure that this slight reduction is more than made up for by the increased ability of the anti lock brakes, so that the total stopping distance is shorter, or else, why bother to switch, in fact, why bother to have brake pads at all? The point was that there is no acceleration, it is simply a reduction of the deceleration momentarily.i thought that when you go over bumps while braking, the computer thinks there is a problem and the "surge" is actually no braking power while the car switches from regen braking to physicals pads braking
Physical feelings can fool you. That is why we are taught to trust the instruments in airplanes when training for instrument flight conditions. You can feel lots of things that are just not true.
You know you were all basically saying the same thing, just disagreeing on the language.
1) a decrease in the rate of deceleration
or
2) a surge forward feeling (even though the car is not going any faster, the lowered deceleration rate will make it feel like an acceleration)
1) a decrease in the rate of deceleration
or
2) a surge forward feeling (even though the car is not going any faster, the lowered deceleration rate will make it feel like an acceleration)
I have experienced this as well. The first time, I instinctively let off the brake to brake again. I think that is what most people are feeling. Once I realized this characteristic of this braking system, when this happens, I just keep my foot on the brake with the same pressure and no problems. Like some folks have said.. Milliseconds. As for who posted about the Audi scenario, that is why all vehicles now have the park interlock system... Must press brake and button on shifter to move vehicle in gear.
A bit long but hope it helps someone
ABS brakes are employed to stop a wheel locking up (i.e. skidding) when a car is braking. This does not always mean that a car fitted with ABS brakes will pull up in a shorter distance than one without ABS. The road surface and weather conditions are two circumstances that dramatically alter a car's braking performance. Sometimes a skidding wheel can cut through gravel or sleet and actually provide more grip to stop a car than the non-skidding ABS function. The huge advantage of ABS is that it leaves you with the ability to steer the car - so whatever you are braking to avoid, there is a chance you will be able to steer around it. Many of us in a car not ABS equipped have probably experienced the sensation of turning the steering wheel to full lock while the car is skidding, only to have the car plough on straight ahead.
Basically the ABS electronics sense the speed of rotation of each wheel and where there is a disparity the system releases and reapplies the brakes to keep all the wheels on the point of lock-up. It can do this about fifteen times a second. While the ABS is operating, there may sometimes be a vibration or pulsing through the brake pedal, there can be a chattering noise from the car’s hydraulics, and you can sense an unusual feeling that the brakes are “letting go”.
Unfortunately, most motorists only experience these symptoms of an ABS system in an emergency, and some motorists instinctively apply less pressure on the brake pedal or even take their foot of the brake altogether.
If the ABS system operates, there are two golden rules. Firstly, keep your foot firmly on the brake pedal. Secondly, remember that you can steer.
ABS brakes are employed to stop a wheel locking up (i.e. skidding) when a car is braking. This does not always mean that a car fitted with ABS brakes will pull up in a shorter distance than one without ABS. The road surface and weather conditions are two circumstances that dramatically alter a car's braking performance. Sometimes a skidding wheel can cut through gravel or sleet and actually provide more grip to stop a car than the non-skidding ABS function. The huge advantage of ABS is that it leaves you with the ability to steer the car - so whatever you are braking to avoid, there is a chance you will be able to steer around it. Many of us in a car not ABS equipped have probably experienced the sensation of turning the steering wheel to full lock while the car is skidding, only to have the car plough on straight ahead.
Basically the ABS electronics sense the speed of rotation of each wheel and where there is a disparity the system releases and reapplies the brakes to keep all the wheels on the point of lock-up. It can do this about fifteen times a second. While the ABS is operating, there may sometimes be a vibration or pulsing through the brake pedal, there can be a chattering noise from the car’s hydraulics, and you can sense an unusual feeling that the brakes are “letting go”.
Unfortunately, most motorists only experience these symptoms of an ABS system in an emergency, and some motorists instinctively apply less pressure on the brake pedal or even take their foot of the brake altogether.
If the ABS system operates, there are two golden rules. Firstly, keep your foot firmly on the brake pedal. Secondly, remember that you can steer.
I have experienced the "surge" on not only my CT200h, but other Non-hybrid Toyotas as well. What I have noticed is when I hit a bump or pothole in a certain way, the brake calipers loose frictional grip with the rotor which feels like you let go of the brakes, even though they are still pushed down. A second or two it usually returns to normal or if I rapidly red gaged the brakes after clearing the bump, normal operation resumes. It only happens on lower speeds under 25 mph, and has not occurred at highway speeds. It is not enough of a problem for me to want to choose another manufacturer since the problem is infrequent enough and problems with other makes are far more numerous.
The brake calipers do not lose frictional grip on the rotors when you go over a bump; Now your tires might loose contact, but not the brake calipersI have experienced the "surge" on not only my CT200h, but other Non-hybrid Toyotas as well. What I have noticed is when I hit a bump or pothole in a certain way, the brake calipers loose frictional grip with the rotor which feels like you let go of the brakes, even though they are still pushed down. A second or two it usually returns to normal or if I rapidly red gaged the brakes after clearing the bump, normal operation resumes. It only happens on lower speeds under 25 mph, and has not occurred at highway speeds. It is not enough of a problem for me to want to choose another manufacturer since the problem is infrequent enough and problems with other makes are far more numerous.
i experience the same problem as well and it scare the shXXt out of me, i feel the car is gonna fly out, it does this on highway too if i happen to try to stop the car going over a bump, and i think this is a issue.
Once it was under huge rain and i tried to stop over a water puddle and the car does this again and it really scares me.
Once it was under huge rain and i tried to stop over a water puddle and the car does this again and it really scares me.
That's probably more hydroplaning than anything else.Once it was under huge rain and i tried to stop over a water puddle and the car does this again and it really scares me.
I strongly suggest that owners who are concerned with this perceived braking problem speak to a Lexus service manager or book their cars in for a service to resolve the issue. Personally, I think their experiences relate to the characteristics of ABS under some circumstances.
I strongly suggest that owners who are concerned with this perceived braking problem speak to a Lexus service manager or book their cars in for a service to resolve the issue. Personally, I think their experiences relate to the characteristics of ABS under some circumstances.[/QUOTE
Why? They aren't going to believe what they are told. They will continue to believe that the brakes are faulty no matter what they are told or shown.
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