From what I understand, these engines typically need new head gaskets after 120k or so. Apparently, because this is a hybrid, the engine turns on and off more frequently than a typical engine and this causes more heating and cooling of the engine block and head, which stresses the gaskets. I had the same symptom, got the head gasket replaced (a mobile service here in the SF Bay Area) and have had no problems since. (Look up GasketMasters on YouTube and there are a few videos showing how you can do it yourself - search for Prius, since that's the same engine. They also have videos explaining why this tends to happen.)
Is there a universal fix for this violent shuddering at startup?
Hello Everyone!
I have owned my 2012 CT200H for 4 years and have personally drive the past ~90k miles on it. I am at 133k and experiencing the violent shutter that appears to be common among 3rd gen Prius and our Ct200h. This occurred twice in 2018 and the dealer conducted a one time good faith repair under TSB L-SB-0004-13, replacing the Intake Manifold. All was good since they conducted this repair. Fast forward to now, I am having this issue at 60-100 degree days almost every time I start the car. Weirdly enough, it won't shudder if I leave the car running and the engine shuts off when the hybrid system takes over. However, if I turn the car off for 1-2 minutes, it will shutter upon starting back up. In the past couple days, I have started to get misfire codes on Cylinders 2 & 4. Once I rev the engine a bit, everything smooths out. I do not believe I have any contaminated oil or am losing coolant.
So far I have cleaned the Throttle body & EGR pipe.
Can anyone solve this mystery for me?
I have owned my 2012 CT200H for 4 years and have personally drive the past ~90k miles on it. I am at 133k and experiencing the violent shutter that appears to be common among 3rd gen Prius and our Ct200h. This occurred twice in 2018 and the dealer conducted a one time good faith repair under TSB L-SB-0004-13, replacing the Intake Manifold. All was good since they conducted this repair. Fast forward to now, I am having this issue at 60-100 degree days almost every time I start the car. Weirdly enough, it won't shudder if I leave the car running and the engine shuts off when the hybrid system takes over. However, if I turn the car off for 1-2 minutes, it will shutter upon starting back up. In the past couple days, I have started to get misfire codes on Cylinders 2 & 4. Once I rev the engine a bit, everything smooths out. I do not believe I have any contaminated oil or am losing coolant.
So far I have cleaned the Throttle body & EGR pipe.
Can anyone solve this mystery for me?
21 - 35 of 35 Posts
Egr cooler should be removed and cleanedHello Everyone!
I have owned my 2012 CT200H for 4 years and have personally drive the past ~90k miles on it. I am at 133k and experiencing the violent shutter that appears to be common among 3rd gen Prius and our Ct200h. This occurred twice in 2018 and the dealer conducted a one time good faith repair under TSB L-SB-0004-13, replacing the Intake Manifold. All was good since they conducted this repair. Fast forward to now, I am having this issue at 60-100 degree days almost every time I start the car. Weirdly enough, it won't shudder if I leave the car running and the engine shuts off when the hybrid system takes over. However, if I turn the car off for 1-2 minutes, it will shutter upon starting back up. In the past couple days, I have started to get misfire codes on Cylinders 2 & 4. Once I rev the engine a bit, everything smooths out. I do not believe I have any contaminated oil or am losing coolant.
So far I have cleaned the Throttle body & EGR pipe.
Can anyone solve this mystery for me?
Does fixing the head gasket fix the shuddering at take off . i took it in to the lexus dealer and he says a new gasket is needed. My mechanic says that noise would not be caused by a head gasket. Not sure what to do ..From what I understand, these engines typically need new head gaskets after 120k or so. Apparently, because this is a hybrid, the engine turns on and off more frequently than a typical engine and this causes more heating and cooling of the engine block and head, which stresses the gaskets. I had the same symptom, got the head gasket replaced (a mobile service here in the SF Bay Area) and have had no problems since. (Look up GasketMasters on YouTube and there are a few videos showing how you can do it yourself - search for Prius, since that's the same engine. They also have videos explaining why this tends to happen.)
thoughts
thanks Ian
I wish I could say for sure, but it was my experience that this solved the problem completely. The noise and shuddering absolutely can be caused by a bad head gasket. I (think I) know this from my personal experience, from what both a lexus mechanic and the dealer told me, and what I've read online about the problem. As I understand it, the coolant leaks into the cylinders when the car is at rest and builds up there. Then when you try to start the car, the coolant at first prevents the gasoline from igniting, then when it does ignite, rapidly expands (water vapor) causing the knocking. But after it gets started, the amount of coolant leaking into the cylinder is small enough that it doesn't continue happening. Since the engine is the same as the Prius engine, you can research it yourself by looking for posts and other information about the problem with that vehicle (and there are a lot more of them.)Does fixing the head gasket fix the shuddering at take off . i took it in to the lexus dealer and he says a new gasket is needed. My mechanic says that noise would not be caused by a head gasket. Not sure what to do ..
thoughts
thanks Ian
I think your mechanic is wrong, unless he's seeing or hearing something really distinct from what I experienced. Also, if you took your car to the mechanic, he or she wouldn't be seeing the behavior of a cold start after the coolant had had a chance to leak into the cylinder, so maybe that's why they said that.
Good luck with this. I found the problem really annoying, and the fact that these engines tend to need a new head gasket so reliably at 130K miles or so seems like a design flaw.
thanks for getting back with me- so you ending up getting a head gasket job ? just gathering info for my son as it his car. It has 187000 miles - he has to decide to either get it done or get a new vehicle. What did you pay for your head gasket? how long ago was it done?
thanks again Ian
thanks again Ian
Yes, I did get the head gasket replaced and it completely solved the problem. I got a $4500 quote from an independent mechanic who specializes in Prius’, a $6500 quote from the Lexus dealership, and then stumbled on a mobile mechanic (Gasket Masters) in Northern California who quoted $1350 and charged me $1300 (I think they liked the sandwiches we brought out to them.)thanks for getting back with me- so you ending up getting a head gasket job ? just gathering info for my son as it his car. It has 187000 miles - he has to decide to either get it done or get a new vehicle. What did you pay for your head gasket? how long ago was it done?
thanks again Ian
They made a business out of fixing this specific engine. In their van, they not only had every tool they needed, but also pre-machined parts in case that was needed.
If you’re interested, they have YouTube videos (search for Gasket Masters) showing every step of what they do.
Thumbs up to Gasket Masters 👍
so here’s a good read for all of us..
Let’s stop paying dealerships to fix our engines
Really hope this post gets spread around so everyone can see it… This is all of it in one post..
Here is the Cause and Effect
of the little Atkinson engine
==The Effect==
too much oil is the most likely culprit, especially with the placement of our PVC’s, i caught on to this when i let the dealership change my oil.. overfilled.. And of course everyone stating oil pooled up behind throttle body.. Well that’s PVC spitting oil folks.. Dealership Maintained, that’s an oxymoron actually, they overfilled the oil Themselves.. Just lucky i went to the highway for for trip back to Michigan the next morning, continuous run time to burn excess oil off.. 2 days later oil is just under Full dot.. 👍
so here’s a good read for all of us..
Let’s stop paying dealerships to fix our engines
Really hope this post gets spread around so everyone can see it… This is all of it in one post..
Here is the Cause and Effect
of the little Atkinson engine
==The Effect==
==The Cause==Simple simple simple..
Starts Banging SHUT IT DOWN..
Don’t let these Atkinson engines bang..
They don’t like it, and it will cause damage rather quickly, like Less than 30minutes quickly..
Change the plugs, Ensure gaps are .041
Don’t fret this EGR money dump scam, system is designed to warn driver of EGR Restrictions, clean it then..
Mind you, this is IF you catch it fast enough.. Like don’t drive home or to the dealership Banging away..
Let it bang, well your in for a few surprises-
1- intake manifold gasket goes out
2- head gasket goes out
3- wrist pin circlip pops
4- throw a rod out the side of the block
so what is this Bang “?”
It is an out of order firing of gases in the cylinder head behind the valves when a spark plug is not firing.. Want to test this yourself- pop the hood unplug a spark plug coil, or pull the coil over plug off the spark plug, go start it for a second.. Bang Bang.. This procedure is called Duplicating The Complaint, at dealerships that say they Can’t Duplicate the customers complaint..
Atkinson engines have a valve timing for fuel efficiency, some gases blow back for reburn.. Spark plug not firing, the next cylinder fires the unburnt gases, explosions in the cylinder head.. that’s enough to take out the intake gasket if left banging till it clears up.. While this is happening we have an out of thermal balance of heat at cylinder Deck, allowing uneven thermal expansion of the cylinder head, takes the head gasket out.. Like sandpaper.. Let us not forget, as SOON as it starts banging we have undue stresses on the wrist-pin, that if left Banging, takes the circlip out that hold the wrist-pin in place.. well now that holds the piston and connecting rod together.. Boom throw a rod out the side of the block, it’s done..
this all cumulates to Having a Bad day..
and yes the Manual is Wrong..
Change plugs every 60,000 miles, not 120,000 miles as per “Properly Dealership Maintained”
too much oil is the most likely culprit, especially with the placement of our PVC’s, i caught on to this when i let the dealership change my oil.. overfilled.. And of course everyone stating oil pooled up behind throttle body.. Well that’s PVC spitting oil folks.. Dealership Maintained, that’s an oxymoron actually, they overfilled the oil Themselves.. Just lucky i went to the highway for for trip back to Michigan the next morning, continuous run time to burn excess oil off.. 2 days later oil is just under Full dot.. 👍
Yea I read that the wrong way too Haha_jizzjizz, they did that as a test.. A check-off on that hopeful list of did we catch it fast enough
Coolant starting to disappear- head gasket already gone, it banged too long..
Less than 30min total can damage an Atkinson
We have delved even further down the tree here on this.. Yes we have determined what makes it bang, the order of damage that will occur, and how to replicate the bang.. But we never actually deduced the “initiating” cause of the bang that starts the downward spiral of fate..
Seems to be a combination of points..
Aged plugs is definitely one, a piece of suet from EGR getting through is another, but let’s add a process here that could easily foul a plug during normal operations.. oil...
Oil will foul out Any plug, so let’s talk about oil in an Atkinson 👍
-Filter without sealing caps
-Oil quantities
-Positive Crankcase Ventilation
-Location of our PCV’s
-Oil catch cans
st10358 is the correct oil filter from SmarTech at Walmart, the original design sealing caps.. This maintains original oil flow characteristics, and minimizes the splash around effect..
we noticed that putting indicated oil quantity in taps past the full mark on the dipstick, at the dealer no less.. This is where PCV comes into play..
PCV- positive pressure under pistons is routed back to intake for burn, as RPM increases, crankcase pressure is increased..
PCV can actually spit oil up through the system, if over filled, over revved, etc, saturating an intake as it sits cooling off while oil drips into a cylinder.. Go start one morning and Bang.. Many have complained of finding oil sitting behind the throttle body and down the plenum runner, many.. So let’s keep oil at or just below our Max Dot for starters..
Have more to Respond here, but my sister is calling on a Medical
wow that is a great price i however live in raleigh ncYes, I did get the head gasket replaced and it completely solved the problem. I got a $4500 quote from an independent mechanic who specializes in Prius’, a $6500 quote from the Lexus dealership, and then stumbled on a mobile mechanic (Gasket Masters) in Northern California who quoted $1350 and charged me $1300 (I think they liked the sandwiches we brought out to them.)
They made a business out of fixing this specific engine. In their van, they not only had every tool they needed, but also pre-machined parts in case that was needed.
If you’re interested, they have YouTube videos (search for Gasket Masters) showing every step of what they do.
?isn’t that a great price 👍
Be a much better price, if we Didn’t have to pay that 🤔 hence “click to expand” in posts..
My 2012 is in the shop now, going on a week to replace the head gasket and all that goes with it for $4K. They said they have seen 3 or 4 other CT200s at around 150K miles with this issue (not a Lexus dealer). I had the shudder at start up and all that others here are describing. Seems like you should be prepared when you hit 130K miles - not sure if there is anything you can do to prevent it as it seems like a pretty consistent issue.
Complete egr removal and cleaningHello Everyone!
I have owned my 2012 CT200H for 4 years and have personally drive the past ~90k miles on it. I am at 133k and experiencing the violent shutter that appears to be common among 3rd gen Prius and our Ct200h. This occurred twice in 2018 and the dealer conducted a one time good faith repair under TSB L-SB-0004-13, replacing the Intake Manifold. All was good since they conducted this repair. Fast forward to now, I am having this issue at 60-100 degree days almost every time I start the car. Weirdly enough, it won't shudder if I leave the car running and the engine shuts off when the hybrid system takes over. However, if I turn the car off for 1-2 minutes, it will shutter upon starting back up. In the past couple days, I have started to get misfire codes on Cylinders 2 & 4. Once I rev the engine a bit, everything smooths out. I do not believe I have any contaminated oil or am losing coolant.
So far I have cleaned the Throttle body & EGR pipe.
Can anyone solve this mystery for me?
Manifold as well.
My experience.
I got Lexus CT and PriusThumbs up to Gasket Masters 👍
so here’s a good read for all of us..
Let’s stop paying dealerships to fix our engines
Really hope this post gets spread around so everyone can see it… This is all of it in one post..
Here is the Cause and Effect
of the little Atkinson engine
==The Effect==
==The Cause==
too much oil is the most likely culprit, especially with the placement of our PVC’s, i caught on to this when i let the dealership change my oil.. overfilled.. And of course everyone stating oil pooled up behind throttle body.. Well that’s PVC spitting oil folks.. Dealership Maintained, that’s an oxymoron actually, they overfilled the oil Themselves.. Just lucky i went to the highway for for trip back to Michigan the next morning, continuous run time to burn excess oil off.. 2 days later oil is just under Full dot.. 👍
Both of them had a completely clogged egr
Without giving any error.
But because of degrading fuel consumption
I removed the two identical egrs
And cleaned them thoroughly
It takes couple of days to soak and clean , finally the consumption
Improved.
So probably ,you will get the egr error, when it's too late, for your head gasket.
Anyway, you can do for your car whatever you like.
you will pay the fine accordingly.
I’m also in Raleigh did you find anyone locally?wow that is a great price i however live in raleigh nc
I also live in Raleigh, any luck with a local mechanic?I’m also in Raleigh did you find anyone locally?
21 - 35 of 35 Posts
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