If I have synthetic oil, can I go 20k without an oil change?

gamma742 said:

There is a guy here with a Blue CT, I think he is in the courier business.. He goes about 26K between oil changes. Some have suggested that he change his filter in between but I thinking he only does the filter when he does the oil.

Click to expand...

I'm that guy.

If you would like to increase your OCI (oil change interval) past 10k miles, then I recommend you get lab tests on your oil if you attempt it, to be safe.

First of all, like everyone has been implying, Toyota designed the engine with a full-synthetic oil in mind. Depending on how you drive, you may be able to extend your OCI. This is why Toyota recommends 10k OCIs, because they have to account for every type of driver and go with the lowest common denominator.

The oil I use is Mobil 1's Extended Performance, which is rated at going 15k miles between changes (there's a 20k miles version now too). They also make a filter of the same rating, but I don't recommend it as it started to fail around 26k miles. The filter is made of a combination of synthetic and natural media. I recommend a full-synthetic media filter, like the Wix brand I use (part number 57064XP). I have had my oil and filter up to 28k without filter or oil issues.

Keep in mind that my driving style is cruising at 60 MPH all day on the highway (literally cruising, as in cruise control), so my engine doesn't see a lot of hard work. If you are gentle on your car, you can probably easily exceed the 10k factory OCI. Again, I recommend lab tests to be sure. I use Blackstone Labs (https://www.blackstone-labs.com/) myself.

I have my reports if you'd like to see the results.

I'm going 30k on this oil change. Reason being, I'm very knowledgeable, and use the right oil and filter. I used Mobil-1 0W-20, and a Pure One Purolator filter (Note that I did NOT say Pure GOLD). You have to know what you're doing. This specific filter has 5-micron media and is very, very good. The more expensive "Gold" is NOT as good for our cars. I then sent my 15k oil (I drive the car in a way that doesn't beat on it at all) to Blackstone labs for analysis. Analysis showed ok to push for 20k, without any concerns.
So I then went with Signature series Amsoil 0W-20 and a Pure One Purolator filter. I warm the car up most of the time before driving it (pull it out of the garage, pull to the side, and wait the couple of minutes for the water temp to get up to 100-F, while the car is in park and thus has no load on the engine). I rarely have to cold start the engine because I keep it in a garage. This warming up is likely the most important thing I can do. Add up all the minutes I sit warming and I bet it's less time than an extra oil change.

Amsoil is rated for 20k miles, but with pre-warming, hybrid easing engine wear and runtime, and at least driving at very low speeds in my little town, initially letting it warm up a lot before putting much load at all on the engine, I'm really minimizing the most damaging part of the driving cycle. This 30k mile oil change (car has 8k to go with 122k on odometer) will be with Amsoil again (may be that Amsoil is a waste of money, and that Mobil-1 would work fine...especially as someone noted Mobil-1 now has a 20k mile version....mostly related to base levels and acid build-up in oil over time). If my 30k change looks pretty good on oil analysis, I'll continue another 30k. If that one looks good, I'll likely go back to Mobil-1 as it's a lot less expensive and easier to just pick up at Walmart. I'm sticking with Pure One Purolator filter. I'm sure other ones are good (I used Mobil-1 filter previously, and it's good....but not as good as the Pure One) but I'd make sure you're looking at good bypass mechanism and 5-micron filtration media.

I'll let you guys know how it goes with the analysis. I anticipate I'll see a bit more metal than ideal, but probably not anything concerning. Otherwise it's back to 20k change. Once I get a couple of clean oil analyses, I'll probably quit doing them and just have my interval set.

I appreciate not worrying about my oil at even 20k miles, while others are driving around nervous that they're "overdue" at 11, 12, or 13k miles. Learn what to do and how to make sure your engine can run well over a longer period of time. It's not just money, it's a HUGE benefit to not have to change the oil NEARLY as often.

Next Oil Change: 30k !!. Reason being: No real need to change it more frequently. I'm at 122k miles on the odometer, and decided to do some preventative maintenance items, thus I'll be changing the oil "EARLY @ 24k miles". Like Raidin, above, I pay close attention to my selection of oil and filter, and clean the air filter occasionally (I use paper air filter, not K&N, for reasons I'll not go into here). Like Raidin, I run oil analysis with Blackstone Labs in order to verify that my increasing intervals are justified. Here is the report (see below) I received today from a sample I took before cleaning the EGR system. (Note to anyone interested: oxygen tubing fits down oil dipstick tube, and it's really easy to siphen-off the ~30cc of oil needed for an analysis, without having to open the drain plug). Blackstone analysis costs less than replacing the oil. It also only takes a couple of minutes.

Although the numbers are higher than my previous analysis, they are proportionate to simply increased time and miles. You can see not a great amount of difference between the 13.6k mile oil-change, and the 23.8k oil sample. Blackstone evaluation of the data is important to me (written narrative at top of analysis). I work on piston aircraft engines, and trust my life to the engines I work on, so I don't do this "willy-nilly".

Items done in the past couple of days @122k miles:

--Added SeaFoam to gas (2oz/gal) to clean injectors, valves, etc.
--Added SeaFoam to crankcase (1oz/quart of oil in engine)
Drove 240 miles
--Added SeaFoam to cylinders through spark plug holes (3/4" wrench on crank with straight plastic zip ties placed in first two cylinders to get all cylinders at mid-cylinder position). A few oz/cylinder. Soaked overnight and moved the crank slightly to move pistons up and down, thus cleaning pistons/rings/cylinders from top. I need a borescope Used oxygen tubing to suck SeaFoam mostly out and turned engine manually at crank to expel it from cylinders.
--New NGK iridium plugs (what a pain in the ass to try to make sure they're not counterfeits!....I suggest buying from an autoparts chain, as their supply chain is fairly reliable, and many of the youtube videos on how to tell fakes are not compatible with current plugs (packaging, markings, etc, etc). Most important, from what I can tell: Make sure you see the "copper/gold" colored iridium coating on the electrode. I suggest buying from a major chain retailer and paying the extra few $, which is what I did to make sure I wasn't getting counterfeits.
--Cleaned EGR system (took off EGR cooler/valve/pipe assembly and cleaned out thoroughly)--this is best done after watching videos and preparing for lots of swearing and wishing you had tiny hands and arms. I soaked it in Purple Power/Water (50/50), scrubbed with brushes where able, then dried and sprayed out with Carburetor cleaner. (EGR cooler, Valve, Pipe).
--Replaced PCV valve (so easy to do when intake is off, and it's only a few $). Old PCV valve soaked in Purple Power and cleaned with carb cleaner....It's like new again. You can hear the "rattle" of the piece inside and can feel the difference between before and after cleaning. Feels like the new one now. I'll use it again, if I ever need to.
--Added Oil Catch can so I'm unlikely to ever have to do EGR system cleaning again (see photos, use Youtube!)
--Will be spraying SeaFoam (intake formulation) into the throttle body while car is revved to 2,000 rpm. This will do a final cleaning of valves, intake, cylinders, etc.

Then, since I've flushed all this junk into the oil with all these cleanings, I'll be changing it.

This should prevent problems for the next 120,000+ miles. If anyone knows of something else I should be doing to prevent major problems in the next 120,000 miles, please let me know.

I plan to change brake pads some day (still factory originals...I try to brake with regenerative braking as much as possible and absolutely use B mode in the mountains, where I live...keeping off the pads as much as possible). Someone please comment on if I should have the rotors turned when I do that. I think so, but I've never understood why the pad, contouring to the disk, would care about some slight grooves. I'll have to find a brake rotor turning shop for that (dealership would likely charge a ton, and also not be that reliable on quality, I don't think).

Battery pack: May change this proactively, in the next year or two. Input welcomed as to life-span of battery packs. I live in a very temperate, high-elevation climate, with car in garage around 55-degrees in winter, to 75-degrees mid-summer, so battery pack should last quite a bit longer than average. Don't want to get stuck though. 150k? 200k?

Otherwise, I'm just going to be just changing fluids:

Oil change will be 30,000 miles. Amsoil Signature Series 0W-20 (same as with this analysis), and Purolator PurOne Filter (Purolator has changed from the Purolator One to the Purolator PurOne PL16311, and I'm not so sure anymore. These are good filters though with good 10-micron filtration, and I have several, so I'll just stick with them after much research and gnashing of teeth over which filter to use.

I believe Mobil-1 0W-20 oil with Mobil-1 filter would be also be fine, but with such long intervals, I don't mind spending a few more $ on Amsoil.

I'm not going to be cutting open the filter, as the chances of finding any visually large metal pieces is nil, and it's not an airplane.

Using Redline D6 ATF put in at 50,000mi. Just realized I need to change this now too (I'm at 70,000 on ATF fluid....intended to change every 60k. Might go with 80k after this, however, since it's Redline D6). Crap. Will be doing that with the oil change.

Coolant got mostly changed since I dumped most of it on the garage floor while taking apart the EGR system.

I hope this long diatribe is useful for someone. It's my hope that some of you will stretch your comfort zone and stop changing oil so frequently (it's a waste of time, oil, etc). These cars are fantastic if you do some preventive maintenance and the engine is working less often than a non-hybrid. I really enjoy going long, long distances with very low maintenance. The efficiency of our fantastic CT's is not just in fuel economy, but in economy of headaches and time doing maintenance. Make it efficient! If you're really nervous, send your oil to Blackstone next time, but going 20k is a no-brainer!

Oil changes should be done very 6 months or 10k miles whatever happens first if you want to keep the car for a very long time. If you are fine with it lasting a normal amount of time then do it every 12 months and 20k miles whatever happens first.

Reason being. It's not the oil you need to worry about breaking own. As the engine gets older with wear and tear fuel will start to contaminate the engine oil. Fuel especially the crap they use in America will start to break down rapidly. The longer you drive without changing oil and the more miles you do the more crap you are going to have in it. The engine oil is fine and will do plenty of miles and last a long time however the other contaminants won't. Engine oil is relatively cheap as is a filter and doing an oil change is as easy as changing the water in a fish tank so no need to pay a mechanic to do it. All you need is some axle stands and a decent jack and get something to catch all the old oil in.

Personally I change mine every 12 months which is circa 7K miles and I use UK fuel which is made to a much higher standard. I recently had the egr cleaned at 90K miles and the mechanic sent me pictures and he did the full system and he said it looked pretty clean. The egr issue appears to only happen when using crap fuel (like the stuff you get in america).

Here is my report on my 2015 Base model. I did the oil change interval at 10k. I used Mobil1 (Advanced Fuel Economy) oil and oil filter. I forgot to mention, this was a 7 month oil change. I spoke to the rep from BlackStone. They said my oil was within normal range of other CT's they analyze and don't see a need for me to change how long I wait to do an oil change.