[IN VTEC]

Subject: 2012 Lexus CT200h Premium Navi
Mileage: 264140 mi
Symptoms: Engine coolant temperature light displays. Engine overheating if prolonged 70+ mph driving or faster if under higher load.

Not losing coolant.

Water pump / thermostat - replaced with Aisin aftermarket unit; original pump impeller had high resistance to turning by hand. Thermostat still functioned but was replaced anyways as PM with a Dorman unit Problem persisted.

Cooling system bled by loosening EHR temp sensor. Problem persisted.

Checked EHR temp sensor electrical resistance and temp sensor wiring reference voltage. Resistance was within spec range when cold and ~700 ohm at > 176 F. Did not find an issue, so did not test drive. Continued to EHR thermostatic valve, actuator, and exhaust valve. Checked baseline position at cold temp (~ 68 F).

Warmed up engine and rechecked actuator rod position. No position change even though the thermostatic valve was 195 F on the outside.

Disconnected thermostatic valve from exhaust valve pulley to test each independently for smooth range of motion. Confirmed thermostatic valve actuator rod could not move and exhaust valve could move smoothly with minimal effort.

Isolated issue to stuck actuator rod on thermostatic valve. Toyota part is currently on back order. Sourcing is uncertain and I’ve safety wired the exhaust valve open to bypass the EHR heat exchanger.

Torture test drive pending.

 

[IN VTEC]

Overheat condition persisted.

Upon return home, let exhaust system cool down. Confirmed safety wire was still holding valve in open position.

Next test is to replumb the coolant hoses to circumvent the exhaust heat exchanger.

 

[Build-a-CT]

You've taken a good approach so far. I'm just going to vomit ideas here incase anything helps spark something for you:
1) it happens at 70mph so we know its not related to fans.
2) nothing is leaking and coolant levels aren't decreasing so its not a head gasket etc
3) Is the only sign of it running hot that indicator? any other evidence?
4) Could be the case that either air is not getting to the radiator at 70mph, or coolant from the radiator isn't getting to the engine. Check for blockage around radiator and squeeze coolant hoses to make sure they aren't collapsing.
5) Does your heat still work? (this could indirectly hint at the amount of coolant flow going on)
6) Is the water pump wired the correct way? Some electric water pumps will flow one way or another based on what polarity they were wired in. If you're sending coolant the wrong way through the system it will not work right, or not at all.

 

[IN VTEC]

Thanks for taking a few stabs at it.

1. Correct, it does not overheat after idling in maintenance mode. The fan eventually turns on so maybe it’s curtailing the overheat. Need to monitor variable, trendable data rather than binary.

2. I don’t believe so either because -
Combustion chemical leak test completed. No significant combustion byproduct ground in coolant. Control test using exhaust did turn solution green vs the solution exposed to coolant reservoir which remained blue, similar to unexposed solution.

And, cooling system pressure test completed using Mishimoto MMTL-CPT-28 with warmed up engine. Pressurized coolant reservoir to 20 psi and it maybe lost 1 psi at the end of 5 mins.

3. There is one other supporting symptom. The coolant level is ballooning in the reservoir and is increasing the pressure in cooling system. Coolant level returns to same Full line on reservoir after cooling down.

4. Not sure. Need to figure out how to test it.

5. Heater functions and is the only way to lower the temp if I can’t move off the road or slow down too much. Coolant overtemp light never goes solid so it shouldn’t be detrimental.

6. Not sure how this could happen since there is only one elec connector on the water pump and only connects to pump one way. Issue could be on the pump side’s electronics but that would need another test to see if the impeller direction can be reversed.

 

[Perl1947]

Cooling fan was checked?
Fan was replaced recently?
may be,that the fan is spinning the opposite direction ,it should throw air towards engine bay.

 

[Build-a-CT]

Thanks for taking a few stabs at it.

1. Correct, it does not overheat after idling in maintenance mode. The fan eventually turns on so maybe it’s curtailing the overheat. Need to monitor variable, trendable data rather than binary.

2. I don’t believe so either because -
Combustion chemical leak test completed. No significant combustion byproduct ground in coolant. Control test using exhaust did turn solution green vs the solution exposed to coolant reservoir which remained blue, similar to unexposed solution.

And, cooling system pressure test completed using Mishimoto MMTL-CPT-28 with warmed up engine. Pressurized coolant reservoir to 20 psi and it maybe lost 1 psi at the end of 5 mins.

3. There is one other supporting symptom. The coolant level is ballooning in the reservoir and is increasing the pressure in cooling system. Coolant level returns to same Full line on reservoir after cooling down.

4. Not sure. Need to figure out how to test it.

5. Heater functions and is the only way to lower the temp if I can’t move off the road or slow down too much. Coolant overtemp light never goes solid so it shouldn’t be detrimental.

6. Not sure how this could happen since there is only one elec connector on the water pump and only connects to pump one way. Issue could be on the pump side’s electronics but that would need another test to see if the impeller direction can be reversed.

Replies:

4) I would look around the radiator to make sure there arent any leaves / other debris blocking the radiator. And squeeze the hoses to get a rough feel for their health.

5) Its interesting to me the heating system cools the motor. That could only happen if there is at least some coolant circulation going on. Adds more useful context.

6) its possible they could have reversed the pin outs at the factory. Has happened before.

New items:

7) I believe on our cars the heater works outside of the thermostat circuit. I would check to make sure the thermostat rating matches or is below factory, and just remove it and try to see if you can replicate the previous overheating.

8) did the car overheat before the aftermarket water pump was installed? Check to make sure its flow rate is similar to stock.

9) is it the original radiator? Radiators can corrode on the inside over time causing the small passages to gum up, especially if there has been water in it that wasnt distilled.

10) has anyone ever put a head gasket or radiator leak "fixer" in it? These could also gum up some of the passages.

11) there is a chance the water pump gasket or gasket maker is blocking one of the coolant passages around it. I haven't changed one myself on these cars so I don’t know if such passages exist.

closing statement: The cooling system holds pressure, so in your case there can really only be two issues: lack of coolant flow and poor heat exchange.
suspected coolant flow issues are the thermostat, collapsed hoses, insufficient water pump.
suspected heat exchange issues are a gummed up radiator, radiator not getting enough air flow, or improper coolant to water ratio.
Disclaimer: There may very well be special coolant system considerations I don’t know about on CTs. Im diagnosing it like a standard motor.

 

[Build-a-CT]

Ok I went through your profile. After seeing that great head gasket write up Im going to switch gears here. I definitely still think there is value going through the list I posted. BUT there may be more at play. There is a chance the cooling system is working fine but the engine is running very hot. In this case the cooling system wouldnt be able to overcome the engine.

If thats the case I would suspect something to do with exhaust being backed up. Possibly the "gravy" clogged up the CAT or something in the EGR.

although I wonder too (scatter brained) if these cars have an engine temp sensor that activates the water pump (not just the fan like other cars). May be worth looking into if such a device exists and anything on the associated circuit.

 

[3picp0wer]

HI there, new to the forum world really and making my first entrence as a future ct200h Owner hopefully. But here is not to talk about me but i have a sugestion maby.
Ive been reading a lot these day and it is not uncommun for the 2011 to 2013 to consume a lot of oil up to 5 quarts between oilchange it seems. Hyou looked into you oil level because it could cause overheating and at high speed it could be the culprit im no expert and it is only speculation by my part but tought it could help.good luck in your endeavour.
12) Oil level

 

[3picp0wer]

HI there, new to the forum world really and making my first entrence as a future ct200h Owner hopefully. But here is not to talk about me but i have a sugestion maby.
Ive been reading a lot these day and it is not uncommun for the 2011 to 2013 to consume a lot of oil up to 5 quarts between oilchange it seems. Hyou looked into you oil level because it could cause overheating and at high speed it could be the culprit im no expert and it is only speculation by my part but tought it could help.good luck in your endeavour.
12) Oil level

This is a technical bulletin by Toyota for the 2ZR-FXE engine but warranty on;y cover Prius.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10132912-9999.pdf

 

[IN VTEC]

Mileage: 226100 mi
Status: Overheating persists under same conditions.

Latest tests and results:
1.) Monitored OBD2 data.
Temperature is typically 200 F idling or bleeding cooling system, and steadily increases to around 220 (city) to 230+ (hwy) on my 36 mi commute.
Coolant fan ON at ~208 F.
Cooling system temp warning light blinking ON at ~242 F.
Cooling system temp warning light solid ON at ???…Im guessing around 250 F +.

2.) Flushed cooling system with Prestone cleaner. No change. Issue persisted.

3.) Removed thermostat and flushed cooling system again. Issue persisted. It may even overheat faster?

Replies:

4) I would look around the radiator to make sure there arent any leaves / other debris blocking the radiator. And squeeze the hoses to get a rough feel for their health.

Nothing grossly out of the norm. The condenser fins exposed in the air dam are a little smooshed but nothing else to note. This is typical in many cars. The AC functions just fine.

5) Its interesting to me the heating system cools the motor. That could only happen if there is at least some coolant circulation going on. Adds more useful context.

This is still functioning the same, even after flushing by the cooling system twice and removing thermostat.

6) its possible they could have reversed the pin outs at the factory. Has happened before.

I will be replacing the water pump after replacing the radiator, if that doesn’t cure it.

New items:
7) I believe on our cars the heater works outside of the thermostat circuit. I would check to make sure the thermostat rating matches or is below factory, and just remove it and try to see if you can replicate the previous overheating.

Thermostat removed, cooling system flushed a second time in 2 weeks, and refilled with 50/50 coolant mix. Overheating still persists under same conditions.

8) did the car overheat before the aftermarket water pump was installed? Check to make sure its flow rate is similar to stock.

Yes, but not in Jun-2021, which was after the head gasket replacement in Mar-2021.

9) is it the original radiator? Radiators can corrode on the inside over time causing the small passages to gum up, especially if there has been water in it that wasnt distilled.

Yes. Replacing it next since the thermostat was ruled out.

10) has anyone ever put a head gasket or radiator leak "fixer" in it? These could also gum up some of the passages.

Not to my knowledge and I have not…yet…although this issue is testing my patience and I may still.

11) there is a chance the water pump gasket or gasket maker is blocking one of the coolant passages around it. I haven't changed one myself on these cars so I don’t know if such passages exist.

Not sure how I’ll test this yet.

 

[TobiasSing]

I wonder if part of the radiator is blocked. I don't suppose there's any real way you can tell if there are cold spots in it when it's operating. But sounds like replacing it is a good idea at that mileage anyway.

 

[IN VTEC]

I wonder if part of the radiator is blocked. I don't suppose there's any real way you can tell if there are cold spots in it when it's operating. But sounds like replacing it is a good idea at that mileage anyway.

If I bought an IR camera and had full line of sight to one side of the radiator, I could see the flow based on temp profile. Not sure that’s worth the diagnostic effort since radiators are low cost.

 

[IN VTEC]

CSF radiator P/N 3775 has arrived.

 

[IN VTEC]

Mileage: 266249 mi

Radiator replaced.

Ex situ water pump visual check at commanded 3000 RPM was good. Pump impeller physically rotates, stops and starts on command without binding. Did this with the new scanner I purchased.

Thermostat opening at ~196 deg F confirmed via IR gun in stove pot.

40 mi test drive, without AC, completed at speeds > 70mph for several minutes at a time. Overheating indicator lamp did not illuminate. Wasn’t able to monitor coolant temp with scanner. Value was frozen at -40 F. Maybe be a suddenly dead ECT sensor and not just a connectivity issue with scanner?

Looks somewhat hopeful.

Pics will be uploaded.

Ben

 

[IN VTEC]

Combustion gas leak test

Cooling system 20psi leakdown test (5 min duration) using Mishimoto MMTL-CPT-28 ($87.95 from Amazon)

Thermostat functionality test - stove, pot, IR gun, zip tie, thermostat removed from thermostat housing (could also do the test with the entire housing in the pot but would need more water)

Electric water pump (Aisin WPT-190) visual inspection after 6k miles of use; old pump was binding

Radiator R&R

 

[IN VTEC]

Electric water pump functional test.

 

[IN VTEC]

Torture test completed. Constant 70-80 mph with AC on in 73-75 deg F ambient air temp. Coolant temp did not exceed 190 deg F.

 

[Tungsten Torpedo]

@IN VTEC what a great summary. Thank you very much.
So, in your post-mortem, given that you replaced a significant portion of the aged cooling system, what would you say was the primary concern? My reading/review suggests 1) radiator 2) several little items adding up - thermostat, water pump, coolant flush.
Again, kudos for the thoroughness of review and analysis. It's a challenge to debunk the myths that can overwhelm rational and analytical data and next steps. My favorite was seeing a 194* thermostat in action at ~194*. I use my Scangage II to keep an eye on ICE coolant temp, TBT temp, Inverter coolant temp and for fun, intake temp. (Seeing your handle, I've/we've been Honda adherents for a long time, adding in some Toyota/Lexus over time. I probably blew a head gasket on my Civic Si back in the day. More recently, belts popped on my LX450, Scangage showed a final temp over 250*, no issue once the belts and tensioner were replaced. My new-to-me CT is over 180,000 miles on the odo, engine temps peak at 198* on the highway. When in the city, it can get up there, but then comes back down with the traction motor doing the motivating. As I baseline my ride, next steps include a thermostat, water pump and coolant replacement. Cheap insurance!)

 

[IN VTEC]

Radiator was the root cause.

All other items were replaced prior, later confirmed to be functioning as expected for their individual role in managing coolant temp (e.g. thermostat confirmed to open at expected temp, water pump physically spins, etc.), and the engine was still overheating.

it was not until the radiator was replaced before it would no longer overheat.