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Discussion Starter #1
hi everyone, i decided to make a whole new thread for the sake of discussing what's been brought up a few times over the past few weeks by ct200h owners. it was taken from the thread below:
http://www.ct200hforum.com/forum/lexus-ct200h-general-discussion-forum/117692-how-many-miles-do-you-get-one-tank-gas.html

I believe the CT200 uses bladder type gas tanks, from my experience on the Prius when its cold, the bladder shrinks or stiffens and you will not be able to put as much gas and when its hot it will expand and more gas can be added.

Just understand your car, your gas mileage will drop when its cold and the bladder tank will not let you put in too much fuel. When you see the gas light turn on, you still have atleast 3 gallons of gas, that's atleast 120 miles to go, you should be pretty safe from running out of gas.
here's a los angeles times article stating that the 2010 prius and newer switched to rigid resin tanks instead of the inconsistent bladder tanks.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/26/business/fi-prius26

if this is the case, am i safe to assume that the 2011 ct200h is also using the newer rigid resin tanks and not the bladder based fuel tanks? i would really, really like to know this. please, if there are any techs or sales people or sponsors out there who can help to answer this question, i think we'd be in a better position to determine what the heck is up with the discrepancies we've all been experiencing.

today, i ran my car until the fuel light came on, and the "cruising range" on-board computer went to "0" miles. i filled up soon thereafter, and put in a total of 9.346 gallons of fuel (several clicks more after initial stop). our gas tank capacity is 11.9 gallons. therefore, according to the calculations, there was over 2.5 gallons of fuel left in the tank. or was there?

from what i gather, the prius owners manuals pre-2010 describe the possible discrepancies of fuel tank capacity due to temperature affecting the bladder. however, i don't recall seeing anything being mentioned of the aforementioned discrepancies within the ct200h's owners manual. anyone else catch something i may have missed?

either the ct200h is still using the bladder-style fuel tank (which i hope is not the case), the fuel level sensor and/or fuel gauge needs to be recalibrated, and/or the on-board computer needs to be recalibrated, too. something is definitely amiss here.

i hope to get a good discussion going on here so we can get to the bottom of this together as ct200h owners and possibly, get the issue taken care of by lexus. :)
 

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Cruising range is an inexact science. Its a math/software problem, not a physical gas tank problem.

The rule of thumb for ANY car is there are a couple gallons left when you hit E (or when the light comes on).
 

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Toyota and Lexus have their "range" to hit zero when you should fill up the vehicle, not when you run out of gas. They've done this for ages. There is no problem with it. It was a decision that Toyota/Lexus made. My 4Runner has around 3 gallons of fuel left when my "range" hits zero. I essentially use it as a countdown to when I should fill up, not as a countdown to when I'm out of gas.

It makes sense to me. It tells you to act when the indicator hits zero instead of seeing 10 on there and then realizing you are 20 miles away from the nearest gas station. With 2 gallons remaining, when the range hits zero in the CT, you have 80 miles to find a gas station.

Again, there is nothing wrong with the gage. Toyota/Lexus use it as a countdown to fill-up rather than a countdown to out-of-gas.
 

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To be honest, I'm shocked by the number of people trying to run it down to the last sips of fuel in the tank.

I'm just the opposite I try to keep it above 1/4 of a tank left mark and usually between the 1/2 to 3/4 empty at worst. In tank fuel pumps use the gas to keep the pump cool, not sure where it's on the CT but I'd rather error on the side of not running out or shortening the life of the pump.
 

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To be honest, I'm shocked by the number of people trying to run it down to the last sips of fuel in the tank.

I'm just the opposite I try to keep it above 1/4 of a tank left mark and usually between the 1/2 to 3/4 empty at worst. In tank fuel pumps use the gas to keep the pump cool, not sure where it's on the CT but I'd rather error on the side of not running out or shortening the life of the pump.
Going along with what Bob259 said, I also usually fill it up when it hits 1/4 full because of another reason, which doesn't really apply now since the car is so new, but later on, I hate running my tank dry and sucking in whatever sediment is there in the bottom of the tank into the fuel filter/engine. Not fun clogging all my pipes up.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
quentin and others, your point is well taken and it makes sense. if it means anything, i did not intentionally try to run it until i was out of gas. i know all automakers will leave a reserve amount of fuel in the tank despite showing empty for the safety of the general public, because let's face it, there are a lot of careless people out there, and honestly, there are those times when it just happens.

but 2.5 gallons out of 11.9 gallons is nearly a 1/4 of the tank's capacity. that's quite a discrepancy if you ask me regardless of what toyota's intentions were for extra reserve capacity. it doesn't truly jive with me and so this leads me to think there might be a more reasonable/tangible answer for this. for those of you who just 'accept' it for what it is, there's more power to you. but i don't think i'm ready to just 'accept' it for the time being.

i'm really interested to know if the ct200h has the new resin fuel tanks rather than the bladder fuel tanks.
 

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Something tells me Toyota dropped the whole bladder tank after the whole fiasco and all the customer complaints. I see no mention of the bladder in the manual.

What leads me to believe it's a resin tank is because in the RX400h, a resin tank is used and in order to meet EPA fuel vapor standards, it uses a pressurized fuel vapor system. In that manual AND in our CT's manual, it says something along the lines of how there may be a delay after pressing the fuel door release button for the door to actually release because of the pressurized system that kicks in to depressurize the rigid tank. All of these problems all stem from the car manufacturer's need to meet EPA environmental guidelines and are a prerequisite for SULEV classification.
 

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Everything i've read so far says the bladder is no longer being used by Toyota.

Cenix, everything about the problem you have described is purely software related. I don't know what else to tell you.
 

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On my BMW Z4 when the range gets down to zero I have about 1/2 gallon of gas in the tank.

That's good for about 12 miles - I would prefer a little more reserve so the Lexus margin is fine with me.
 

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On my BMW Z4 when the range gets down to zero I have about 1/2 gallon of gas in the tank.

That's good for about 12 miles - I would prefer a little more reserve so the Lexus margin is fine with me.
I think it is very much a German versus Japanese mindset thing. On my VW, when it said 0, you had less than a gallon of gas left. I remember going on a ski trip with my girlfriend back in high school in her Mom's Camry. We were sitting on E and I was scared to death we'd be walking to a gas station. We drove another 30 miles or so with no problem. The Japanese tailor their gage to have a buffer. The Germans give you the exact number and if you run out, you run out.
 

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To be honest, I'm shocked by the number of people trying to run it down to the last sips of fuel in the tank.

I'm just the opposite I try to keep it above 1/4 of a tank left mark and usually between the 1/2 to 3/4 empty at worst. In tank fuel pumps use the gas to keep the pump cool, not sure where it's on the CT but I'd rather error on the side of not running out or shortening the life of the pump.
Also constantly running the tank to empty makes your fuel pump work harder shortening its life. Best to refuel before it hits below 1/4 tank.
 

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I normally refill at the 3/4 full mark. I like having a full tank. I rarely go below 1/2 full.
 

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What grade of gas are you using?

I'm into my 2nd tank of fuel but am not clear what grade I should be using. The Lexus website says regular. Dealer says premium is best. Any comments?
 

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I believe premium fuel was used when testing for the EPA mileage figures, so this is why there is information out there linking premium fuel to the mpg figures. However, the manual states 87 octane. The Prius and CT share the same engine, same HP, same torque, and same compression ratio, so I can't see why it needs to be different than the Prius (87 octane).
 

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The CT 200h ECU is mapped to regular octane, so I'm assuming the EPA mileage figures were run on regular. It's definitely different from the Lexus usual since it does involve a hybrid engine. It's one of two Lexus vehicles that run on regular.

You do bring up an interesting point though. In my old RX350, the engine was the exact same as the Avalon's engine, but I couldn't figure out why premium was required. I figured out that it's the way Lexus maps out their ECUs vs. Toyota. However, in this case, both the Prius and CT's ECUs are mapped out similarly in terms of fuei/air mixtures and type of fuel used.
 

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87 octane is all you need. Premium octane is a research/EPA number to derive fuel consumption and HP figures. You can use it. and get closer to EPA/HP figures.

As to put this one to rest: the CT does not use the bladder type tank. Only Gen II Prius' had that to reduce vapors.

Having a reserve after the Cruising Range says 0 is for your own safety so you don't get stranded. The fact that its 18% of the fuel tank's actual capacity........who cares????
 

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I actually ended up driving a good distance when my light turned on and the cruising range said zero. Gave me some anxiety since I drove non stop from Las Vegas to LA. Ended up okay. LOL.

Was only able to fill up w/ 9.284 gallons despite being run on empty for at least 10 miles. 40.72 MPG on normal mode.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
As to put this one to rest: the CT does not use the bladder type tank. Only Gen II Prius' had that to reduce vapors.

Having a reserve after the Cruising Range says 0 is for your own safety so you don't get stranded. The fact that its 18% of the fuel tank's actual capacity........who cares????
team lexus, thanks for clarifying the ct200h is using the new rigid resin tanks. can i ask how or where you got your information from?

point well taken for having a reserve so as not to get stranded. it's all about how you look at it, so simply saying "who cares????" doesn't cut it. this kind of mentality prohibits progress. your signature states that you're a race car driver and you're saying an accurate gauge isn't in the best interest of the driver? really?

by the way, gen II prius wasn't the only prius generation to have the bladder style fuel tanks--they were all like that up until 2010 model year.

anyone else able to confirm whether or not the ct200h fuel tank is the new rigid resin version? thanks for the replies and discussion everyone. :)
 

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point well taken for having a reserve so as not to get stranded. it's all about how you look at it, so simply saying "who cares????" doesn't cut it. this kind of mentality prohibits progress. your signature states that you're a race car driver and you're saying an accurate gauge isn't in the best interest of the driver? really?
People who don't use the "cruising range" don't care.

I'd much rather stare at the power distribution gauge. My first car had an estimated MPG gauge, and while hilarious to watch at times (as it hit 99mpg going down steep hills) it was completely inaccurate. MPG gauges and Cruising range numbers are basically useless.
 
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