Lets Plug-In

[Jedi767]

OK guys, I've had my CT for a couple months now, been getting 38-41MPG and I'm now ready to move on. I'm looking at all the different Plug-In solutions out there. I'm leaning towards Enginer right now but only started looking seriously yesterday. I really like Plug-In Supply, but I'd have to talk to them about making something custom for the CT (still waiting on their email back).

I've been emailing with Enginer today and they stated they've already done 2 CT's.. I found that interesting. I wonder who these people are and how its working out for them.

Also PriusChat has a PHEV Plug-In section of their forums dedicated to plug-ins.

I'd love to hear everyones thoughts and concerns

[Dozer42]

My only major concern would be that we live in California, with some of the highest electricity costs in the nation, and it would be pretty impossible to recover the initial investment.

I went through all these numbers originally when considering a Chevy Volt/Nissan Leaf/Prius PHV/CT200h.

Other areas of the country are at $.13/KWH average (some as low as $.08/kWh!), while in the LA area rates can easily hit $.19/KWH and sometimes as much as $.40/KWH for 'abusers'. LOS ANGELES CONSUMER PRICE INDEX: AVERAGE ENERGY PRICES FOR SEPTEMBER 2011

If we take a Chevy Volt as an example, it's battery is 16kWh, with a usable capacity of 10.4kWh (65%), and a range of 35-40 miles on that charge, that's a bit over $2 for that range.

Whereas premium gas at $4/gallon would cost about $4 for it's 37 mile range (what the volt gets on gas). Sure makes the electricity look good, even at $.20/kWh.

Let's try the 8kWh $5500 ($6500 in California) battery. With the same 65% effective range, wild ballpark figures put that at 5.2kWh usable, at $.20/kWh we should be right at $1 for a 20 mile range.

Whereas regular gas at about $3.65/gallon should give a good 40 miles in the CT200h, the electricity to go 40 miles would be $2 vs $3.65 for gas.

Not too bad. Now if we calculate that if we very often ran below 20 miles and kept on the battery most of the time, at $1.65 saved every 40 miles, we could make up that initial investment of $6500 after 157,500 miles. (Assuming the battery would last that long). If we drove it the max 20 miles every day we could recover the cost in about 21.6 years. (At $.10/kWh it would still be 121,000 electric driven miles to recover the cost after 16.5 years at 20 miles/day).

I may have gotten a C in math, and maybe I need to run the numbers again, but they just aren't making sense to me, at least not in California.

(Please feel free to rework the math, I could be totally off!)

Not trying to poo-poo the idea, but as a business owner I couldn't quite see the savings paying off the initial investment. At least with the Prius PHV we'd get the car pool lane, which might save hours, but not in the CT200h.

[jimmyc13]

Interesting idea, though while I'm an avid car enthusiast, I'm not up to speed on the benefits of the plug-in hybrid. Is all that it does is fully charge your battery after driving, so next time you drive your car, it's fully charged? If that's the case, not sure how beneficial that is, depending on your driving habits & where you live. By time I pull into my garage, my battery is always no less than 3/4 full.

Can someone help explain? Thanks!

[Jedi767]

My only major concern would be that we live in California, with some of the highest electricity costs in the nation, and it would be pretty impossible to recover the initial investment.

I went through all these numbers originally when considering a Chevy Volt/Nissan Leaf/Prius PHV/CT200h.

Other areas of the country are at $.13/KWH average (some as low as $.08/kWh!), while in the LA area rates can easily hit $.19/KWH and sometimes as much as $.40/KWH for 'abusers'. LOS ANGELES CONSUMER PRICE INDEX: AVERAGE ENERGY PRICES FOR SEPTEMBER 2011

If we take a Chevy Volt as an example, it's battery is 16kWh, with a usable capacity of 10.4kWh (65%), and a range of 35-40 miles on that charge, that's a bit over $2 for that range.

Whereas premium gas at $4/gallon would cost about $4 for it's 37 mile range (what the volt gets on gas). Sure makes the electricity look good, even at $.20/kWh.

Let's try the 8kWh $5500 ($6500 in California) battery. With the same 65% effective range, wild ballpark figures put that at 5.2kWh usable, at $.20/kWh we should be right at $1 for a 20 mile range.

Whereas regular gas at about $3.65/gallon should give a good 40 miles in the CT200h, the electricity to go 40 miles would be $2 vs $3.65 for gas.

Not too bad. Now if we calculate that if we very often ran below 20 miles and kept on the battery most of the time, at $1.65 saved every 40 miles, we could make up that initial investment of $6500 after 157,500 miles. (Assuming the battery would last that long). If we drove it the max 20 miles every day we could recover the cost in about 21.6 years. (At $.10/kWh it would still be 121,000 electric driven miles to recover the cost after 16.5 years at 20 miles/day).

I may have gotten a C in math, and maybe I need to run the numbers again, but they just aren't making sense to me, at least not in California.

(Please feel free to rework the math, I could be totally off!)

Not trying to poo-poo the idea, but as a business owner I couldn't quite see the savings paying off the initial investment. At least with the Prius PHV we'd get the car pool lane, which might save hours, but not in the CT200h.

If I was interested in the cheapest option out there I wouldn't of bought the CT at all. I would've bought a used Prius for almost 1/2 the price that gets better mileage.

Interesting idea, though while I'm an avid car enthusiast, I'm not up to speed on the benefits of the plug-in hybrid. Is all that it does is fully charge your battery after driving, so next time you drive your car, it's fully charged? If that's the case, not sure how beneficial that is, depending on your driving habits & where you live. By time I pull into my garage, my battery is always no less than 3/4 full.

Can someone help explain? Thanks!

All the plug-in options I've seen add a battery pack somewhere on the car which then either acts as the primary source of power for a certain amount of miles (Plug-In Supply) or continually feeds the onboard regen battery more juice (Enginer).

[Tomanik]

Interesting and looks like it would be pretty easy to add. Not sure that would fit in the back where the spare, storage goes so would probably need to give up space in the back.

[Dozer42]

If I was interested in the cheapest option out there I wouldn't of bought the CT at all. I would've bought a used Prius for almost 1/2 the price that gets better mileage.

Ok, if money isn't the objective, and getting in the car pool lane isn't, what's the motivation behind the additional battery capacity? =]

[Don]

Can the traction motor alone propel the car at highway speeds? I thought you would need the assist of the gas engine to maintain speed above 30 mph. Isn't the traction just for low speed and to assist the gas engine when more power is needed at higher speeds?

[Sleepypete]

From what I remember of reading the PICC/Enginer info, it's supposed to be able to deliver electric only at up to maybe 70mph.

From what I know of my CT, that's probably quite reasonable ... That's going from my CT settling down to about 2200rpm on a 70mph cruise. That must be nowhere near the max output of 73kW at 5300rpm for petrol only, so it must be fairly decently within the 60kW max output of the motor. I suspect a limiting factor will be gearing vs max motor rpm, can the motor rev high enough to sustain the power needed to balance out 70mph drag.

The motor and engine are fairly close in Power output which makes one of the strongest features of the Toyota/Lexus system. Either can drive the car at reasonable speed, unlike the Honda system where the motor is quite weedy.

It's fairly amusing to read Dozer42's calcs with the 21 years to pay back the investment (think you're spot on there before thoughts of petrol price rises come in ). Would be less time to recover the investment in the UK as our petrol costs more. When I fill up tomorrow, I'll pay around £1.309 per litre ($2.0676) depending on how far I get.

The short-ish range would fit the profile of my daily driving, although I don't have the garage to allow it to be plugged in safely. It's something I may peek at if I keep the CT longer than the warranty period (that depends on whether a CT300h appears )

[Jedi767]

Ok, if money isn't the objective, and getting in the car pool lane isn't, what's the motivation behind the additional battery capacity? =]

Why did I supercharge my last M3? There is no smart answer to this, just it seemed like an extremely fun thing to do at the time. Getting more MPG's right now is as exciting as boosting HP is to most jackasses.

[jimmyc13]

Why did I supercharge my last M3? There is no smart answer to this, just it seemed like an extremely fun thing to do at the time. Getting more MPG's right now is as exciting as boosting HP is to most jackasses.

Ha ha ha. I think it's a great idea and am very curious to know what the MPG gains will be!